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[+] Voting for God
Posted: Fri Aug 27, 2004 7:53 am
noir
 
Joined: 12 Aug 2004
Posts: 32
Location: on the journey




alright, let's get political. hopefully we can still love each other and be of a different political persuasion. to what extent does your faith affect your voting for any elected official, be it president or some town clerk.

my family background is a history lesson in conservative politics and ideology. i myself have broken away from that. but i mention my family because it did not matter what other issues were on the political table. when it came to voting for a canidate there was only one question: "pro-choice or pro-life?" that one issue decided it all.

another example in my life comes from when i was in college. i went to school at a conservative christian college, in a very conservative county. they didn't even allow the sale of alcohol or pornography in the county. (i'm not lamenting my lost interests, i'm just saying this was a conservative place.)

come election time there was a state representative election in that district. the republican canidate (pro-life) had just been found out for severely abusing his wife. even his fellow republicans wanted him off the ticket and had endorsed the democratic canidate. he did lose the state vote, but when they looked back at the poll numbers he had almost 90% in the precinct that covered the college. He lost in every single other precinct in the state.

so after all the long-windedness: how does your faith affect your voting? should we vote at all? how do you weigh which candidate will do the most good for the most amount of people? so on and so on.........

[+] David Foster
Posted: Fri Aug 27, 2004 2:53 pm
toastchee
 
Joined: 16 Aug 2004
Posts: 4
Location: Nash




over at BCC, pastor David Foster shared an interesting thought on this. There are some that feel to be a real Christian, you must vote Republican. There are just as many that feel you need to vote Democratic to be a real Christian.
AIM Address

[+] 
Posted: Fri Aug 27, 2004 5:22 pm
Sam
 
Joined: 12 Aug 2004
Posts: 12




www.sojo.net/video

[+] "Go ahead, throw your vote away!!!"- the Simpsons
Posted: Fri Aug 27, 2004 7:54 pm
astrotoby
 
Joined: 24 Aug 2004
Posts: 24
Location: earth




Here's my take on it:

George Bush is obviously an idiot. John Kerry is obviously an a**hole.

I'm throwing my vote away on a third party candidate.

[+] Re: "Go ahead, throw your vote away!!!"- the Simps
Posted: Fri Aug 27, 2004 9:02 pm
Indie
 
Joined: 14 Aug 2004
Posts: 18
Location: lost and confused




Are you trying to stir up trouble, noir? You're are going to get a bad rep. on this board.



astrotoby wrote:
Here's my take on it:

George Bush is obviously an idiot. John Kerry is obviously an a**hole.

I'm throwing my vote away on a third party candidate.


I think that Bush is worse than an idiot which is why I think it is important to vote for someone who actually has a chance of beating him.

John Kerry is not my favorite person in the world. I am annoyed that he is running so much on his Vietnam record when there are good things he could say about himself from the rest of his life.

I totally understand wanting to vote for a third party candidate. I did this in the last Massachusetts gubernatorial race. The green party candidate was quite impressive while both the dem and the rep were jerks. But I knew in that race that it didn't really matter who won. They were both jerks but not enough to ruin the whole state. In my opinion Bush and Cheney have done a ton of damage to this country as well as other places in the world and I can't in good conscience vote for anyone that can't get him out of office. That's just my opinion.

_________________
Joel 2:16
"Sanctify the congregation, assemble the aged; gather the children, even infants at the breast."

[+] 
Posted: Mon Aug 30, 2004 4:21 pm
shawn
Site Admin
 
Joined: 26 Jul 2004
Posts: 25
Location: 609




of all the hard questions plaguing me now, this may be tops. luckily, it will go away in a few months. i have personal feelings about each of the candidates, and the system in general, but here is my take:

i want more choices. true freedom is found in choice, and i feel that we only have 2, which to me, really isn't much of a choice. i can either vote (in this election) way right or way left.

i think both candidates are for big government, and that's not something that i personally like. it would be great if we had 4 different parties that were equal in the power thing, but it seems to all come down to money.

difficult, indeed.

[+] 
Posted: Fri Sep 03, 2004 1:54 pm
RachelFreeze
 
Joined: 20 Aug 2004
Posts: 13
Location: Goodlettsville, TN




I think the main difference between the two candidates is the fact that bush is for the philosophy that personal responsiblity and and hard work leads to self-sufficiency and greater success in life. The other claims it is more compassionate for the government to provide the help for you. I think that giving and giving government funds to people without them learning to stand up and do things for themselves isn't helping anybody.

As far as social issues in politics. I believe this as a Christian. I cannot hold people who aren't Christians to this philosophy: God gave man government. We are to be good stewards of it, supporting and promoting those principles and issues that are godly and Biblical. To promote otherwise, I believe, would be irresponsible and not being a good steward of the goverment, which God gave to us. We feel the same way about money, why not goverment? So, social issues should not be pushed aside as unimportant.

Some argue that social issues are secondary to those issues like poverty. In that...its pretty much up to you as far as which philosophy you think better handles that problem. I tend to agree with the old saying, "You can give a man a fish, and feed him for a day. You can teach a man to fish and feed him for a lifetime." I support those policies that promote and, yes, require personal responsibility and work. Things like poverty is a cycle, and sure the government can help, but the government cannot break cycles for you...it is up to personal responsibility and choices for that to really happen and for it to be passed on to future generations who will learn from that example.

[+] 
Posted: Fri Sep 03, 2004 1:58 pm
RachelFreeze
 
Joined: 20 Aug 2004
Posts: 13
Location: Goodlettsville, TN




By the way, I watched that video at Sojo.

Don't let your anger about that influence from the "religious right" affect your decision...that would be defeating the purpose of the video, I'm sure.

[+] 
Posted: Fri Sep 03, 2004 7:17 pm
astrotoby
 
Joined: 24 Aug 2004
Posts: 24
Location: earth




This may come as a surprise but that fish saying is not actually in the bible. Jesus was not a republican. The early christian church was a socialist system.

[+] 
Posted: Fri Sep 03, 2004 7:40 pm
RachelFreeze
 
Joined: 20 Aug 2004
Posts: 13
Location: Goodlettsville, TN




Sure Socialism is ideal..unfortunately, it won't work in a world made up of depraved men. If we were all sinless and perfect, I think socialism would flow naturally.

Unfortunately, America is not one big church.

[+] Canada
Posted: Sat Sep 04, 2004 3:18 am
astrotoby
 
Joined: 24 Aug 2004
Posts: 24
Location: earth




Works pretty good for Canada.

[+] 
Posted: Sat Sep 04, 2004 8:55 am
RachelFreeze
 
Joined: 20 Aug 2004
Posts: 13
Location: Goodlettsville, TN




And yet Canada's moral compass is totally broken. I wonder how that works.

[+] You can't be serious
Posted: Sat Sep 04, 2004 2:43 pm
astrotoby
 
Joined: 24 Aug 2004
Posts: 24
Location: earth




Are you trying to suggest that Canada's moral compass is more broken than America's?

[+] 
Posted: Sat Sep 04, 2004 3:19 pm
noir
 
Joined: 12 Aug 2004
Posts: 32
Location: on the journey




Quote:
I think the main difference between the two candidates is the fact that bush is for the philosophy that personal responsiblity and and hard work leads to self-sufficiency and greater success in life. The other claims it is more compassionate for the government to provide the help for you. I think that giving and giving government funds to people without them learning to stand up and do things for themselves isn't helping anybody



welfare is a sticky issue. when it comes to economics, republicans are seen as those who advocate "personal responsibility and hard work" for helping the poor help themselves. The democrats are seen as giving away a "free ride" with welfare checks and food stamps and the like.

it's such a hard issue because it feels like the right thing to say "personal responsibility and hard work lead to self-sufficiency and greater success in life." but for some people this just isn't true.

i work with teenagers who should be high school graduates and starting college, but instead they are: locked up in state's custody, have severe behavioral and emotional problems because of sexual and physical abuse, neglect, drug problems, read on a 3rd grade level if at all, their parents are dead or in prison or on drugs, they are caught up in gangs. They have so many strikes against them, and many of these situations where forced upon them, not choices that they made.

Contrast this with “regular” middle-to-upper class kids, mostly white, who’ve had a pretty blessed life, and never had to sleep on the street, never had to get their only meal of the day from school, never had to run away from gun fire.

i may be speaking from ignorance, but it is my impression that a majority of our church members came from white, middle-class to upper-middle-class families. And if any of you were watching the republican national convention this past week, it was noted that over 40% of the people in the arena made over $100,000. there’s nothing wrong with this, it’s just that I think a lot of us don’t have an understanding of what’s on the “other side of the tracks” because we’ve never experienced it or know real people from there.

All this is to say: some people need more help than others. It’s hard to tell some one to just work harder and make right decisions, when they have no resources to better themselves. And who will provide these resources? It must be us as citizens, our tax money, channeled the government in the right way. Is this our duty as Christians? Is this social justice? Is it socialism? I don’t know.

But what is the right way to give? People should be taught to be self-sufficient, but others probably will never be, even if they want to.

If any of you are really brave, take a trip over to 8th Avenue South in east Nashville. If you follow the road it will take you through a public housing/apartment complex that is one of the roughest places in nashville. If you’ve ever wanted to see the ghetto, you’ll find it here. A lot of my kids come from this area. They didn’t choose to live here. Many of them want to get out of it, but for some that will just mean going to jail, or the grave. How can we help them? It will take more than telling them to just work hard. It will take more than just government money. It will take a lot.

[+] 
Posted: Sat Sep 04, 2004 3:36 pm
RachelFreeze
 
Joined: 20 Aug 2004
Posts: 13
Location: Goodlettsville, TN




Hey, I work on 8th avenue South. I work with working poor women everyday at Christian Women's Job Corps.

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